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vdsalchemist
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 Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Debugging in the IDE takes 100% of CPU |
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| sieber wrote: | | When you add a breakpoint to the SourceCode and the IDE stops, my PC use 100% of CPU for VDS. Also if I use the F8 (single step). I use VDS 5 on Win 2000. |
I agree with Jules on this but my question is. While you were doing this did this cause another program or your system to crash or did windows show any error messages? After the script finish running did the CPU usage return to an idle state? Also while this was running did the CPU stay at 100% or did the utilization of the CPU go up and down? Also unless you use a true benchmarking tool I would not strickly use the Taskmanager resource monitor to make my points about the usage of resources. Your question is to open ended and needs refinement. An application that ocassionly uses 100% of the CPU is not a bad thing. This just means that the application is using all the resources provided to it to get the job done as quickly as possible.
A interesting test you can try is to run a second copy of the same script and have them both stop at the same breakpoint and watch what Windows does with the CPU. It should split the resources between them and the one that has the priority will get the CPU time.
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Last edited by vdsalchemist on Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FreezingFire
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe that this needs to be taken down to such a precise point.
The fact is, it is using 100% of the processor and it slows things down
in the background a lot.
We're not talking about benchmarking, rather the fact that is uses about
100% of the processor. 
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vdsalchemist
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| FreezingFire wrote: | I don't believe that this needs to be taken down to such a precise point.
The fact is, it is using 100% of the processor and it slows things down
in the background a lot.
We're not talking about benchmarking, rather the fact that is uses about
100% of the processor. |
If you state that a application is using 100% of the processor then what are you stating. Your statment is a benchmarking or performance statment. What other processes where runing at the time that need the CPU but could not get the time? I have used the breakpoints and I did not see a slow down in any other application at the time. Actually I have used the breakpoint feature while chating online with the script stoped at the breakpoint for more than 30min.
edited/add...
| Quote: | Actually I have used the breakpoint feature while chating online with the script stoped at the breakpoint for more than 30min.
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My statement above pertains to me and my PC. While I have done this, this does not mean that it works on other peoples PC's the same way.
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Last edited by vdsalchemist on Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FreezingFire
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Don't be quite so technical is what I'm saying. Just accept the fact that it
is slowing things down. There's not much to it. The bug report stated that
it used 100% of the processor, that's true, and I think it can be left alone.
Whether or not it's fixed is a different story.
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vdsalchemist
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| FreezingFire wrote: | Don't be quite so technical is what I'm saying. Just accept the fact that it
is slowing things down. There's not much to it. The bug report stated that
it used 100% of the processor, that's true, and I think it can be left alone.
Whether or not it's fixed is a different story. |
Umm... This is a programming forum right? Even if it is VDS we are talking about technology right? Just a question 
I am sorry if some of my posts go over some peoples heads but at the same time bug reports can do dammage to an otherwise awesome product if things are not explained properly and just left with questions...
This post could leave new comers to think that VDS will use all the CPU and not release the resources. This is just not ture and this is not a real problem. Open M$ Word or Excel and while they are opening you will see that they use 100% of the CPU...Now Open a file or something in them and you will see that you can't click on the desktop until it is finished.
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Last edited by vdsalchemist on Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FreezingFire
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I agree...
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jules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Don't be quite so technical is what I'm saying. Just accept the fact that it is slowing things down. |
No it isn't. You missed the point of what I was saying. Windows is giving the VDS IDE 100% because it is in a polling loop waiting for the user to do something. If another program wanted the CPU time, Windows would let it have it. It's *not* a bug.
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FreezingFire
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well if it's not a bug, why is it in this forum?
You're absolutely right, it's not a bug.
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jwfv
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I am certainly not as knowledgable in the inner workings of computers as most people here, but I have to make a comment.
100% processor usage IS a POTENTIAL problem, no matter what anyone says.
I first started encountering this issue a couple of years ago, when using terminal services on a WIN2000 server. We had some DOS-mode programs that made the processor go to 100% on the server when they were open. (Win2000 uses NTVDM.exe to run these, and it uses 100% of the processor.)
When one of these programs is running, other terminal services window are slowed down by a factor of at least 5-10 times. In other words, Win2000 doesn't take away some processing from the problem app (NTDVM) and give it to the other app. The whole system slows to an absolute crawl.
I have since encountered this with other programs. One in particular is R&R Report Writer. When the report preview window is open, it uses 100% of the processor. If this is open on my Win98 machine, accessing the networked database in my office is extremely slow.
To sum up, constant 100% usage of the processor is always a problem waiting to happen, and Windows never properly allocates processor time to other applications.
Having said that, it doesn't bother me that the IDE does this, because when I am programming in VDS, it is all I am doing.
However, if any part of VDS began using 100% processor time (during displaying dialogs, etc.) then it would probably preclude my use of VDS.
Just my two cents. |
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Garrett
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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When I click on a link in MSIE or Mozilla, it takes 100% of my CPU. When
I check my Email, it takes 100% of my CPU, running an AV program takes
100% of my CPU, Installing or Uninstalling a program takes 100% of my
CPU, doing various tasks in MS Word peg the CPU out also.
I use to watch a cpu monitor all the time... Then I realized that almost
everything pegs the cpu and I stopped watching and worring about CPU
usage, unless it was a program that constantly held the cpu at 100 and
wouldn't let other programs take any of it, then I'd get worried.
-Garrett
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jwfv
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that lots of programs will max out the processor briefly. The real problem comes in when a program keeps it at 100% for a long time. We've all noticed how our computers "nearly stop" when opening a file in Microsoft Word, etc. But if Word "nearly stopped" our computers the whole time we were editing a document, no one would use Word.
Again, here it is maybe just an unavoidable by-product of the debugging process, but something to avoid at all costs whereever possible. |
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vdsalchemist
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jwfv wrote: | I agree that lots of programs will max out the processor briefly. The real problem comes in when a program keeps it at 100% for a long time. We've all noticed how our computers "nearly stop" when opening a file in Microsoft Word, etc. But if Word "nearly stopped" our computers the whole time we were editing a document, no one would use Word.
Again, here it is maybe just an unavoidable by-product of the debugging process, but something to avoid at all costs whereever possible. |
Ummm... Any program that polls for user interaction is going to spike the CPU a little... Even the most optimized application is going to do this. This would be considered a critical point in the application so Windows is going to give the application as much CPU as it can.
As far as Windows not handling it's resources properly that is a function of the OS and not VDS. VDS makes a request the OS grants the request if another application comes along and makes a request then the OS should reply appropriately. Is it the fault of the application or the OS making a bad decision. Any programmer that has spent any time writing code that loops and polls for other information knows that if they want to the can kill the OS just by making sure the task never meets it's condition to stop. You don't want to keep the processor tied up for long periods of time but if you have to use the processor then that is what it is there for.
It is strange that in the PC world most of us freak out when the processor hits 100% usage but in the MainFrame world that is exactly what they want their processors to do. You see they want to be able to use every bit that they paid for. Why should the PC world be any different. I Paid all these big bucks for a 1.8 - 2.5GHZ processor why am I only using 20% of it 90% of the time?
So in the end don't freak out about VDS using 100% of the processor every now and then... When your program for the full lifetime in memory uses 100% of the CPU is when you should worry and should be checking your code.... VDS'es IDE is working like it is supposed to as for debugging goes...
Also if you have critical background processes running on the same PC that you are developing on then you need to consider getting another PC to develop on...
One more thing For just about every debugger out there for just about every programming language uses 100% of the processor at one point or another durring the debugging session.
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