forum.vdsworld.com

cnodnarb

EDIT: The big deal is, the programs are not running in an emulator, and have full access to the Linux file system!!

For those of you who are interested, many of your VDS programs now work in Linux!!

I'm running Linux Redhat 7.1 with KDE and Gnome, and have downloaded WINE from www.winehq.com, and many of my VDS programs work fantastic in Linux

Unfortunatly, the VDS IDE does not work in Linux, at least not the 3.x version, although VDS 2.x works fine.

VDS proggies that rely on DLL's don't seem to work ;-(

Hope this information helps someone other that just me Wink

If you need help with installation or getting proggies to work, reply to this post and I'll do the best I can.

NodNarb

Garrett · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:32 pm Post subject:

So when you say VDS apps that require dlls, do you mean like apps that require say the vdsrun30.dll or vdsrun40.dll, or apps that use extension dlls?

-Garrett

cnodnarb · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:39 pm Post subject:

I guess I was pretty general Wink

Actually, the DLL's that failed on me where VDSELM.DLL and VDSOBJ.DLL, however vdsrnd32.dll worked fine, and the runtimes work fine ;-p

I guess I'll have to try each one by one.

NodNarb

Serge · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:47 pm Post subject:

just curious...is it possible to have our vds programs run natively under other operating systems such as linux, macs,...

is it simply a matter of the vds ide being able to compile for different o/s's or is it more difficult than that? could such a feature be added to vds in a future version?

serge

FreezingFire · **Admin Team** Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508

There are different versions of Delphi for compiling to different OS
platforms. I entirely agree that this would be really cool. But it
would likely be a very large project, as many things would have
to be changed if VDS programs were to run natively under different
OS platforms.

Also each new version of Delphi would cost money too, which could
mean higher prices for VDS.

PGWARE · **Web Host** Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 1565

It would take alot of work to get VDS to work under Linux. First you would need to bring VDS up to Delphi 6 or higher. You then need to modify much of the code to use VCL/CLX standard code which means the code is cross compatible. Any code which is not could cause major problems on Linux/Windows.

Any custom components VDS uses would also need to be rewritten to VCL/CLX standards.

You can then compile VDS with Kylix - which is 'Delphi for Linux' and then compile VDS with Delphi for Windows.

I don't see it happening, it would require alot of work and many revisions to VDS's codebase. Alot of features would certainly not work under Linux either that work in Windows. Many controls as well probably not function under Linux either.

FreezingFire · **Admin Team** Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508

Skit3000 · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:50 pm Post subject:

Serge · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:56 am Post subject:

thanks for all your replies...i suspected that it would be difficult but i wanted to check just in case i was mistaken

serge

jules · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:53 am Post subject:

I did some experimental work on this a couple of years ago and had part of a VDS interpreter running under Linux, compiled using Kylix. In fact, the VDS 5 runtime is based on this code which was cleaned up a lot compared to the previous version. It isn't as difficult as you might imagine, the main problems are API-specific stuff, and some dialog elements that have been implemented using third party VCL controls that aren't supported under Kylix. The IDE would be a big problem, because the editor component is no longer supported and hence could not be used under Kylix, and to develop an alternative would be a very big project.
The biggest problem with VDS for Linux, and the reason it is unlikely to happen, is that the culture of Linux is that people who use it don't want to pay for software. I suspect that Borland lost a lot of money developing Kylix. I don't suppose Commercial Research can afford to develop uncommercial projects, and I can't afford to work for nothing, so I don't think it is going to happen for cost reasons alone.
Before I looked at this, I did have VDS running under Linux (VDS version 3.0 I believe) and most of my apps worked including my email client which used the TCP/IP extension DLLs. So it is possible, and I suppose that WINE has much improved too since I last looked at it.
I don't use Linux at all now, so I can't offer any more help with this, as I've long since forgotten whatever I did to overcome any of the problems I encountered.

FreezingFire · **Admin Team** Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508

vdsalchemist · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject:

Hi All,
You know just because it is the Linux OS does not mean that the product is free nor does it mean that it has to be OpenSource. There are many companies out there that sale their software for the Linux OS. Also many Linux users will buy software. After all they purchased copies of RedHat, Star Office, and BRU Desktop just to name a few.. Question

Take a look at the how to document that I found http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Commercial-HOWTO.html some of these programs are very well known and some are not OpenSource while others are. Don't get me wrong here for a company to take a bold step towards the Linux OS is very difficult and scarry but I would not rule it out forever. Watch the trends and do some research to see if there is a market for you before you just say that most of the Linux Community will not pay for software. I don't know about you but I have bought 3 or 4 different retail distributions of Linux just to get the support of the company eventhough I could download and compile it myself it is comforting to a company to have Technical support. Not to mention DR(Disater Recovery) support not just for the OS but also the applications...
I for one would support any effort that Commercial Research would take to make VDS work for Linux... I would even go as far as helping them build GUI libaraies for XWindows... VDS is a very awesome language and Linux has such a bad rap about being too difficult for people to use. A version of VDS on Linux would be a match made in heaven.

PGWARE · **Web Host** Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 1565

Mindpower you may be willing to pay for distro's of Linux but Julian in my opinion is more dead on with the Linux community. Most of the community is looking at opensource and/or freeware products, ONLY when there is no alternative will they use a commerical product. The only real customers for Linux and software for Linux are corporations/businesses that you want to sell a support/add-on service with the product.

There are many Linux products that sell well but as I suggested the majority of the Linux community are looking for the freeware/open source alternatives even when such alternatives are not nearly as feature oriented or professional as the commerical version.

The problem isn't necessarily that there is a majority of users not interested in paying for applications because Windows users are the same way but that the community is so small compared with Windows users. By having a smaller community you limit the # of sales even greater.

vdsalchemist · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject:

PG,
I am not saying that Jules or you are wrong. You are dead on but their are still many that want to go from a MS environment to the Linux environment but are not willing to convert because of the learning curve would be too great for them. VDS is a language that anyone can learn and use to do big things. I just think it is a shame that it is limited to just one OS. There is no other language out there that would offer the Linux community so much in it's persuit for ease of use than the VDS language could.
All I am saying is don't tell your customers that you will never support another OS with your product. That is just too broad of a statement to make. VDS is maturing and with that it's followers will mature and look to expand it to other areas of the computer world. The company I work for uses lots of Unix/Linux and are looking to use more. While it is true I can program in other languages I would love to be able to use VDS because for simple quick utilities you just cannot beat it. If you take and mix it with other languages then it is unbeatable by any other product out there in the area of "Time To Market". I really see the value of VDS and I just wanted to point out that not everyone in the Linux world expects awesome things for nothing and not everyone is willing to goto a product that is of less quality just to save a buck or 2 when they can get the quality and assurance of a well made product.
Here is my suggestion after VDS 5 CR should do some test marketing or survey their customers. Ask them point blank if they could use VDS in the application of the Linux OS. Ask them how many workstations or servers they have that run Linux. Ask them if the purchased their copies. Ask them about other products for Linux they have purchased and which ones they downloaded for free and compiled for the OS. You see I don't believe any analysis has really been done by CR or SADE? I don't know this for sure so I am just guessing. Bottom line is you will not know until you ask the questions and CR could be missing out on a real opportunity here. Besides what could it hurt? So what if you don't get a lot of sales... If you get one more sale of your product then that is one that you would otherwise not have.

FreezingFire · **Admin Team** Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508

I agree Mindpower. While I am not saying anyone is at fault I think
that there is a little bit of an attitude that nothing else is going to
change. I feel like I'm being told "It will never happen so get over it",
and having bought every VDS version since I found it, and going to
be a future repeat customer, I fear that this could be what will
eventually put VDS out of business and that would be a very sad
time. I've put more money into VDS than I've gotten out, and I do
that for a reason: to see it be developed. Frankly, if there's not
going to be much else that changes/improves, that this language
is at the end of its limit, I think that sales could drop drastically.
$100 per version actually goes pretty far in the world of programming.

I think that instead of just dismissing it I think it should be looked
into, researched, and considered seriously. Things need to be
improved if VDS is ever going to become a language which is more
common, like VB. I sincerely hope the goals of everybody's is that
they want VDS to grow bigger and bigger. But in order for that to
happen, customer's suggestions need to be listened to and investigated.
Not everyone at VDSWORLD is a customer, but not
every customer is at VDSWORLD. So the opinion of the regulars
could reflect hundreds of other peoples' opinions.

In this case I think there needs to be some research done about
other OS's, how many customers would use a copy for Linux or Macintosh.
I think it would be smart and if we're going to keep VDS going strong
it needs to be cared for.